.png)
Rebel Yell Gaming Podcast
Welcome to Rebel Yell, the official podcast of Game Revolt, where we give a voice to the gamers and developers who are pushing back against the profit-driven gaming giants. Each episode, we’ll dive into the latest gaming news, spotlight up-and-coming indie titles, and discuss the future of the industry from a player-first perspective. From heated debates on microtransactions to interviews with developers daring to dream differently, we’re here to challenge the status quo and shape the future of gaming together. Ready to join the revolution? Subscribe and be part of the movement!
Rebel Yell Gaming Podcast
Gaming Giants' Missteps and Missed Connections
What if some games are just too big to succeed? That's the bold question we're asking as we unravel the mysterious world of AAA game development, using the infamous Concord with its $400 million budget as a centerpiece. Join us as we explore the disconnect between massive gaming companies like Ubisoft and the players they aim to entertain. We'll dissect why some big-budget games crumble under their weight, while smaller developers manage to create captivating experiences with far fewer resources.
Our conversation takes a critical look at the strategies employed by industry giants, contrasting their trend-chasing tactics with the success stories of companies like Pocket Pair. By targeting mature audiences who grew up with classics like Pokémon, these nimble developers are redefining what it means to succeed in the gaming world. We'll also touch on the pitfalls of prioritizing marketing over innovation and examine how companies can misstep in their attempts to cater to shifting gaming preferences, particularly when it comes to live service versus single-player experiences.
Finally, we venture into Ubisoft's creative challenges, scrutinizing the controversial choices in their upcoming Assassin's Creed: Shadow. With debates on representation and historical accuracy swirling, we stress the importance of transparency and listening to gamer feedback. Drawing lessons from the Sonic movie's redesign, we'll argue that truly understanding and valuing player input is crucial for sustaining fan loyalty and achieving commercial success. As we wrap up, stay with us for a spirited discussion on potential Pokémon boycotts and the power gamers have in shaping the industry.
all right. So we're back and uh, we just wanted to go over um, uh, we wanted to talk about um, what's going on with ubisoft, uh, what happened with concord, and um triple a gaming companies in general and um why they just keep missing their mark.
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah, you know I wanted to bring up this concept that I think some of these game companies, and really the games that they're coming out with, they're too big to succeed. If you look at, say, concord, which reportedly has spent $400 million developing the game.
Speaker 2:That means you have to make at least 400 million dollars in order for the game to be, success, to be, to just break even, excuse me, forget being successful. Right, and if you're investing hundreds of millions of dollars, it's because you expect hundreds of millions of dollars in return. So so obviously you can't stop at that $400 million, and I'm sure they expected this to be a franchise that would make billions of dollars. So when your expectations are so high, it makes it very hard for you to succeed, especially in this kind of industry where you look at market saturation and whatnot. You see who you're competing with. You're competing with free to play games, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The overwatch and um Valorant, exactly, and coming from two of the biggest, uh, most legendary game companies in history. You're competing against that were you? Did you really set yourself up to succeed? I would say no, and to start this off, I just want to ask a question why do you think these games cost so much money today?
Speaker 1:I, I really wish I had an answer for you because, quite frankly, it seems like these companies they're just um. They make so much money on the regular that they can afford to throw their money at whatever they want, and if they think it's going to make them money back, they can afford to do so.
Speaker 1:And um, I truly don't believe games like um concord really cost that much money, because what is it that they're doing that's so groundbreaking compared to overwatch and valorant uh other hero shooter games that um would require that amount of money, especially when you consider the fact that it took eight years for them to create it. So even if it seemed like a good idea at first, where they could say, oh well, everyone's getting into these games, it seems really popular, let's get something out there as quick as possible. Apparently it didn't cross their minds. It's just like, oh, we'll just make one of those and then when it comes out, we'll be on the same level as these guys. It's like, clearly someone up top who has access to the direction of what they do with their money and where the games go, uh, are created and whatnot, has no idea what they're doing. I blame them, but, um, I, I really don't know what they spend their money on yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:it's hard to imagine. I I understand that making games today is a lot harder than it was in the past. Now you have teams of people, sometimes hundreds, thousands of people all working together to create a game, but then you look at how some smaller developers are able to handle it and their teams are not as big. And I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you, you can create you take boulders gate, the re boulders gate.
Speaker 2:Now let's be honest, larry has they killed 400 people working working on a boulders gate.
Speaker 2:So it's not a small studio, it's not like a small indie studio by any means, but they were resourceful enough and you see the product that they were able to make and it's like yo, how this game is so far and above and beyond anything else that is coming out today, and you're hitting a market that I mean who, dungeons and Dragons type game else that, uh, is coming out today, and you're hitting a market that I mean who, dungeons and dragon's type game like who's making those kind of games.
Speaker 2:It was the first time I played a game like that same. So you're hitting a completely new market with this and you're not you know you're you're setting yourself up for success in that way. It's funny because you think Xbox that when they were getting sued by the FTC with the whole Blizzard deal, that memo came out where I believe it was Phil Spencer or somebody at Xbox Gaming that said they are not even looking at acquiring Larian for Game Pass, because who the heck would want to play a tabletop rpg which nobody's trying to play that right? And they were chasing, uh, what was that game called redfall?
Speaker 1:yeah, they spent their money on on that.
Speaker 2:Instead, it's so interesting to see how people at the top of these companies, where where they believe the trends are. These are business people that have been in the industry for years and years and years and yet they are constantly so off the mark when it comes to consumer expectations and what the consumer is actually going to gravitate towards. You look, you know the success we saw earlier this year with Power World. Who was looking at that? Who thought that that was going to take off the way it did? And their budget was like I think I saw somewhere it was like $7 million or something like that.
Speaker 2:It was low in comparison to like Concord's like two percent of their budget right so how is it that power world could succeed in such a massive way and concord doesn't, with all these resources being thrown at it? I'm I don't understand that part that's.
Speaker 1:That's the thing, though it's. It's. It's fascinating to see because you have people like pocket pair, who made um pow world and this was just supposed to be pokemon with guns. Like you, you hear that and you're just like for people who are fans of the pokemon franchise or whatever. Uh, I know, at least for me, when I heard that I was like that sounds kind of crazy, I want to see what that's about.
Speaker 1:And apparently a lot of other people had the same thought, because you think of that and you're just like, oh, it's like Pokemon for adults. And at that time at least, when I heard about it, I know a lot of people were kind of frustrated how, with the games that were coming out for Pokemon seemed to pander more towards kids, which Pokemon technically has done that for years, that's what they market towards. But it kind of feels like us adults who are fans, kind of got left behind in the dust. So when you hear something like that, where it feels like, oh, it's Pokemon for adults, in a sense at least. Again, that's where my thought process was. I'm sure when they created that they already had that idea in mind, especially after you see what the creatures that they created they knew what gamers were looking for. So that's what they did. They made something that they knew that they can hit this market and they think they at least had an idea that it would do well, they think they at least had an idea that it would do well.
Speaker 1:Meanwhile, you look at these other companies who overlooked what Larian Studios was working on because they're like, well, like you said, it's like, oh, a tabletop game, no one's going to want to play that. And little did they know there's a huge market for people who love Dungeons Dragons. They know what their fans are looking, they, they, they know what their fans are looking for. They know what their fans like. So that's what they like targeted, and it's. When you look at who runs these large corporations, um, this goes again to the fact that it's clearly not a gamer, because if it was a gamer, they might, might have seen that and said, oh, this might be something interesting, this might be something that can make us money. They could have picked them up. But no, you have business people running these corporations. They don't see the potential in some of these ideas. They just see their numbers, what made sense, what made sense in the past, what the trends are and that's what they chase.
Speaker 2:And then, when they mess up that, this is what happens but have you ever heard the saying that the generals are always fighting the last war? Yes, these people that are. And now, don't get me wrong. Looking at the past is good, you know in a sense, but you can't have your mind stuck there and all you're looking at is how wars were fought in the past. You're not looking towards the future and seeing in real time things are changing.
Speaker 2:And how to be more forward thinking. It's crazy how you look at these people very smart, business minded people and all they're doing are chasing trends. They're like, oh well, fortnite was popular, this was popular, this was popular, so this is what we should be doing right. And then you have other people that are saying you know, this is, you know larry with the tabletop thing. Uh, this is an underserved market. Let's give them the greatest experience that they can have Outworld. The same thing, like you were saying, pokemon has mainly catered to kids, but kids eventually grow up. Pokemon's been around for what? 20 plus years now. At this point, I think so, yeah, so you know, those people who used to like Pokemon are now adults. You know those, those people who used to like pokemon are now adults. And now there is an underserved market and pocket pair recognize that. And I think that's really where the genius is is recognizing where are these underserved markets and, um, delivering the best product that you can towards them, instead of this constant need to chase old trends. You know, uh, not forward thinking.
Speaker 2:And then, when we're talking about why these games cost so much, look at the marketing with, uh, say, pocket bear. I didn't see a commercial for it. It wasn't. It was my friend telling me hey, look at this game, this game's cool. And then I, when I told my brother, and then I took you know, and like this change just started going on right from word of mouth, like, yo, this game is pretty dope, right, uh. But you look at how a lot of these uh, triple a games are a lot of their money is spent. A lot of these AAA games are a lot of their money is spent on bloated marketing budgets In some cases. You look at Call of Duty Battlefield, they're spending just as much on marketing as they did on developing the game themselves.
Speaker 2:Right Now, the interesting thing with Concord is I also didn't see any advertising for this game. I don't know what the heck they spent the money on. So you can't even blame the marketing budget in this case. I don't think you can. I don't know what their marketing budget was, but everyone I've known I've talked to didn't see much marketing at all. So I really wish we could get the financial data and see how was this money being spent. I'd be so curious to see. Um, what did they do in it? They, like you said, they didn't do anything innovative at least nothing I saw from the game was innovative. The game didn't look. It didn't look cool to me. So that's why and I don't I played overwatch already, I don't need to play, you know, another overwatch clone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like if you find something that works for you, like it, you don't necessarily need anything unless it's something innovative. Like um. I played overwatch for a while and um, although it's not my particular style of gameplay, I I don't particularly care for like the pvp type games, but like I'll play them. Overwatch was fun. I didn't have a chance to play valorant, but I've. I've seen gameplay of that and I saw how um, they kind of switched it up a little bit with the formula, although it was like more or less the same but like it was still its own thing. Kind of similar how when fortnite came out it was supposed to be like it was supposed to replace pub g and then um that came out with um blanking on the name. Um, it'll come to me but anyway. So, like you, you have these games that will come out. They use the similar formula but they try to switch it up. But concord didn't seem to have that same uh aspect and right.
Speaker 2:What about this game?
Speaker 1:makes it yours right and for something that took again that amount of money and you had eight years to like kind of switch up the direction. Because, like, you have a chance to kind of like look at what's going on in the market. You, you see, your, your quote, unquote rivals out there. You see overwatch and valorant and, um, you see how they're doing and you can keep an eye on their numbers and whatnot. At any point you could have just been like, oh, okay, you know what. It seems like they tried to do that the fans didn't like that. We could actually capitalize on that and make it work, uh, for our game when we finally release it. But, um, again, like you said, I didn't even hear about this game until they made an announcement. It was like, oh, they're going to be shutting down the servers. I'm like, what, the service of what? Then I started watching the videos and, uh, reading the articles. I'm like, what is this? I never heard of it. Granted, I don't really watch tv like that.
Speaker 2:So it's not like I would have seen a commercial, unless it's the thing is, it's like you're in these gaming spheres right, like you're on reddit, you, you hear about even these small, random, yes, little games, but how the heck did you not hear about this 400 million dollar behemoth that sony is is publishing right?
Speaker 1:it goes back into like what the hell did you spend your money on? Like who, who ran this whole campaign? Like who did this? Like they're the people who need to step down. I know they had the the um, the lead developer, uh, director, step down from firewalk studios. I'm just like we're literally just talking about that. Like for what? Why did they have to step down? Like whoever in sony made the decision to spend that money on just the development and nothing else. If they claim to actually spend money on marketing, like they need to be fired because that's not on them well, I think that's just me.
Speaker 2:They also need to be fired, because if you were given a 400 million dollar budget and you couldn't make a game that could last longer than two weeks, that's fair come on.
Speaker 1:I do feel bad for them.
Speaker 2:I'm sure like eight years is a lot to like kind of throw eight years, 400 million dollars and you still you couldn't make a game that could last two weeks. It's crazy when you think about like vampire survivor has made more money and that game costs like 99 cents uh and they're they're still rolling out uh updates to that game no, but yeah, that goes back into the problem, though.
Speaker 1:This is like these companies. I mean, of course, they can afford to spend that amount of money, but it's like the fact that you can take a game like like that, spend 99 cents or whatever to like make it. You have developers who solo build a game like stardew valley and it's like, and they can make so much money off of that. It's just like how out of touch are these large companies that they can't even produce a game that people want for like a small amount of money? It's just like you have the money to do it. Great, that's cool, do what you want. I'm not going to tell you how to use your money, but at least try to be smart about it. If you have fans, you have a following. You want to make something that lasts. At least put in the effort. Like throwing money at everything doesn't solve every problem, but I don't know what are your.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's that. And then you have the take on the other side. You have, uh, remember, no man's sky, that came out like almost 10 years ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they had a bad launch too, but they were a small team and they were making a game that people actually wanted. That was the issue was that they were making game people wanted. They just didn't deliver on what people wanted and they continuously updated the game until eventually it's great. I mean, look, if you haven't played it yet. I would say I I recommend it. It's a great game. Oh yeah, look if you haven't played it yet.
Speaker 2:I would recommend it. It's a great game. Oh yeah, it is fun. Whereas with Concord, you made a game that nobody was really asking for. You made a game that already exists yeah, you made a clone. Yeah, so it's crazy that they realized they needed to pull the plug as fast as they did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that I would have at least tried to keep it out there. I mean, I know it costs money to keep live service games running, but oh, it does.
Speaker 2:And not only does it cost money, it's your reputation too. Every time people look hey, you see that game that Sony released. It only has 60 people playing it. You'd rather just get rid of it, start over. Just take old the elder out back like sorry boy, you gotta go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, seriously I mean I I truly do feel bad for them because again, like that, that is a lot of time and effort just to end up putting it down, although I do hear talk that they're going to try to do a offline version just to like, I guess, keep it alive. And who knows, maybe in a few months or a year or so from now it might like pick up again. But I mean, crazier things have happened, but just the fact that it got to this point is ridiculous. I I still can't believe that I never heard of it and I try to stay on top of stuff. I it's much harder to stay on top of, like the indie game industry because there are so many of them, but, like for something from sony, it's just like nothing.
Speaker 2:And then all of a sudden, oh sorry guys, sorry for so how much of a role do you think the fact that it's another live service game that? Do you think people are just tired of having so many live service games? Because if you're, if you're playing these games, you're usually pretty invested in them and you only have but so much attention you can give to world of warcraft, overwatch, diablo, you know all of these kind of these, uh, continuously updated games.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was um I was actually thinking about that the other day because I know that's another issue that, um, uh, people have to deal with. It's just like a lot of these companies. They try to get these live service games out there because it's cheaper for them to just run the live service and then they can do their um, their battle passes or whatever.
Speaker 2:Quote, unquote and um I don't know if I would say cheaper. It definitely makes more money if you can do it successfully.
Speaker 1:That makes more sense, it's more lucrative gotcha. But um, yeah, the fact that they're able to like um that's their focus right now is like, oh, live service is the thing we have to do. That it's like you know what, if that's your prerogative, that's fine, but at the end of the day, like games are going to keep coming out regularly and while I appreciate when they have live service games where they like do updates that are actually substantial and um are actually like contributing to the actual gameplay itself, it's like like, all right, that's cool. But at the same time, you also have to understand that at some point people are going to get tired of it, get bored of it, or they'll see a new shiny game come out and they're going to want to focus on that. Whether or not they come back or not is another story and I know that's. Another thing that gaming companies are trying to do right now is to increase retention for the people who play their live service games. But again, it's like for me personally, I'm not going to play the same game forever.
Speaker 1:Like one game that I play a lot I haven't played for a little while is um, final fantasy 14, and, like I, I love that game. I love what they've done with the game. I'm sure they've made mistakes in the past. What not, it doesn't concern me as much, because they typically listen to the community and they fix it and then they move on. And I love the fact that if I decide to take a break from Final Fantasy 14, like I can, to play other games and I could come back and like kind of pick up where I left off Although I'll be completely lost when I go back on because I just I need to like take notes when I play games. I kind of miss the times where you could take a game, uh, play it to completion and that's it like you. If dlc is one thing, it's kind of hit or miss for me.
Speaker 1:But like another example being like um, the persona series, like I, oh yeah, I love persona. Like I love the fact that I can play the game um, it has replay value. So if I want to experience that again, I can um, um, that's the only like gripe I will say that I have about live service games is that like, if I want to kind of recapture that feeling of like going through that again, I have to start over or I have to create a new character or like again. Like I'll feel lost when I go back into it, so like I don't mind them. They definitely have their place in the industry, but I don't think they should be the focus. I think they should make more games more akin to like persona and whatnot. No offense to the games that are out there that are live service, that are good, like um pal world and whatnot. I think that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Again, I love that I can go to them and uh, does power count as a live service game? I'm not really sure about that.
Speaker 1:I mean, you could just play that game completely single player oh yeah, you're right, but like they, they do have the server. Uh yeah, I guess you could say that.
Speaker 2:I guess that's like defining what is a live service game or whatever.
Speaker 1:They do say, though Pocket Pair made a statement that they don't care that if you decide to stop playing for a while, go play the games that you like. I feel like more of that energy should be incorporated into, um uh, gaming in general, like because, again, there are so many games out there there are more that are coming out on a regular basis and you're gonna want to play them. So, like it should be okay to like stop playing a game, especially a live service game, to go play another one and being able to come back, and I I don't really know what their goal is with that, because again they're trying to come back and I I don't really know what their goal is with that, because again they're trying to increase player retention, but I don't think that should be the goal.
Speaker 2:So I don't know what you think about that yeah. Well, I hear a lot of companies talk about how they have no problem with you going out and trying other games, but then it feels like you're almost punished in a way when you don't play that game, like if you don't sign up, it's like, oh, you got to get your daily login reward, you got to get your weekly? Oh yeah, and if you, if you don't, you?
Speaker 2:feel like these things every week you're gonna be behind and it's like, well then I can't really play other games. You want me to stay in your ecosystem.
Speaker 1:See the entire time yeah, I I can't like that makes me lose interest in the games, like the fact that I I miss out on stuff. I I don't know how you would fix that in general, because they have to find ways for you to come back.
Speaker 2:But um, I will say I appreciate when, like especially some mobile games they have you just release new content, you don't have to you don't have to like, force them, like, oh you have to come this many days in a row, type deal right, right, like a lot of games are taking that mobile game perspective of um, you need to, will limit you in what you can do and you have like this amount of energy or something like that, and you can only play this much and then you you got to come back tomorrow if you want to finish. It's like right bro, I I just want to. That's what I love about boulders gate 3. I could beat the game today if I wanted to. It's so long and you know that probably won't happen, but you do have that option available to you and I think people are starting to see now um elden ring, boulders gate, where people are appreciating more. I think even God of War.
Speaker 2:I didn't play that one, but I'm thinking about the previous games of the year. When was the last time we had a live services game of the year?
Speaker 2:I don't even remember oh, I have no idea but anyways, people are starting to appreciate their time more and realizing that these other games kind of waste your time in a lot of ways that single player games can't. They are constantly. They want you to stay in the game, stay involved. Every moment is action packed or whatever it doesn't. It doesn't have to always be action-packed, but story-driven games they keep you invested without it being.
Speaker 1:you're going to fall behind if you don't do what we say gate 3 is like an excellent example of that, because, even though, um, they, they don't do that, where they, where you feel like you miss out on something, it has enough content where you've, you're kind of enticed to go back and continue to play because, like, you can play from so many different perspectives and the story can change depending on which choices you make.
Speaker 1:So, like, the replay value is phenomenal and, um, it's just a matter of when you feel like you know what I want to see, what would happen if I did this, um, and I feel, um, the the character they make, um, the dark urge is a perfect example of that, because you can play your character the way you want to play it, uh, if you want to do your custom, or if you want to pick one of the stock characters and play from their perspective, and then you have the dark urge, which is like I wonder how this is going to play out, and it's just like I love games that have that type of aspect to it because, uh, again, it entices you to play, but it doesn't force you, it's not telling you oh, you have to come back.
Speaker 1:You have to come back this many set of days. I don't like to be told what to do when it comes to playing games. Like I really hate when you start a game for the first time and, um, you know, when they have, like you know, the tutorial or whatever, I don't mind having the option for the tutorial. I hate when it forces you to do exactly what they tell you to do until you're like let go, that just drives me hand holding, yeah, the hand holding.
Speaker 1:It's like kind of that aspect, like I love that you can just jump into games like those, uh, like these, rather, um balder's gate, um, even, uh, elden ring and um, even as chaotic as it can be, it's, it's rewarding as you explore you're not dude I my first time going through Elden Ring. I didn't even know there was a tutorial.
Speaker 2:I accidentally missed the entire thing.
Speaker 1:The fact that you could do that is actually kind of awesome yeah.
Speaker 2:I had no idea until hours into the game. I went back to that area and I was like, oh wait, what the heck?
Speaker 1:It's like there's so much you can miss, just like you just blink and you miss it.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, so uh, about getting back to concord and how these big games are just not hitting the mark. I think something else you look at uh, ubisoft's soon to be released. Uh, what we thought was soon to be released has been delayed now. Uh, assassin's creed shadow, yeah, and how that's just not resonating as much with players. Um, do you have any thoughts on that?
Speaker 1:honestly. Honestly, the funny thing is is, um, I've been wanting to get into assassin's creed for a while, because the first assassin's creed game I ever played was um, assassin's creed, black flag, and that's the one where you're a pirate, right. I remember getting that for the xbox elite and um I I don't even remember where I got the xbox, I think someone gave it to me but um, that was the first game I got. I was just like all right, this looks interesting. I didn't really care to play it.
Speaker 1:But after playing it for a while I was just like this is really really good and a lot of gamers would argue that it was like probably one of their best ones in the whole series. And it kind of made me want to play the other Assassin's Creed games just to see what the full story is, because apparently there's a certain level of continuity between each of the installments and I love when games have that. But when they announced Well, again, I didn't really play any other ones except for the original. I haven't gotten that far at that time, right, but when they announced this new one coming out, it kind of baffled me a little bit, because I know it's supposed to be, it's supposed to have the uh, the whole um asian, uh, japanese, um setting where they have samurai and ninja.
Speaker 1:I was like all right that's a really cool aspect, but, um, it seems so far removed from the originals, where, again, I'm not as fully familiar with the entire story as um many other fans are. But I did hear that there were a lot of um, there was a lot of backlash as far as what they were doing with the game. Now you have this um samurai, I believe, who happens to be a black guy, and um, I don't. I I thought it was kind of an interesting choice because, um, I a lot of these games are somewhat historical. I don't know how accurate that is, but it kind of seemed like ubisoft had an agenda with that there.
Speaker 1:Um, uh, I've heard that, yeah I, I know that, um, they're trying to. Well, at least from my perspective, it seems like they're trying to do have some kind of inclusion or whatnot. I mean if if that's your prerogative. It is what it is. Like me personally, being a black person, like I, don't need representation in such a manner as like. If you want to make a black samurai, that's totally cool, but if it's not integral to the story, then I'd rather you not do that.
Speaker 2:But again that what I thought was interesting about that whole thing was not only Yasuke supposedly not black, like African American, he's African, right but they have hip hop songs playing as his thing and it's like I did not know. Yeah, like hip-hop songs playing as his thing. It's like, huh, I did not know. Yeah like what Nothing screams feudal Japan. Like hip-hop and.
Speaker 1:So they just did not care. Okay, I got it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so. That's kind of annoying, it's such a weird direction to take the game.
Speaker 2:That really annoys me, it's like have you played Ghost of Tsushima? I have not. I've only seen games. Oh my goodness, that game was so cool I loved. I didn't even know a lot about the whole Mongol invasion and whatnot, and I don't know how historically accurate this is either, but you know they bring up historical figures. Genghis Khan he's not in it, but it's like his nephew or something like that is invading, but it was really cool to see that. You have to go around rallying the people trying to thwart the invaders. It was really cool to play this game that's semi-historical, historically accurate. And now you have this other game which is pretending to be historically accurate, like they have some historian who quotes himself as saying most people agree that, uh, this is what happened, and it's really strange. Like you know, he's this. Uh, not to be racist, but I guess I'm being racist. Whatever this white guy is telling japanese people what their history is. It's like I can understand why they would be upset about this right, and it's annoying.
Speaker 2:People, like you said, don't like being told what to do but, then I feel like it's even worse when you're telling them like their historical records aren't true and there was this guy who was, uh, this legendary samurai. It's like nobody. There's no records to say that he even was a samurai. You're just making, you know, making stuff up at this point.
Speaker 1:So and it's not too like far removed to say that um ubisoft doesn't take some liberties with um their stories in history, in assassin's creed, but I feel like with this one in particular, they took it to a new level. Because, while I'm all for like I prefer the historical accuracy and I don't mind when games take their liberties and stuff, but I just want them to say that Like say listen, just so you guys know this is not completely historical, um, historically accurate. This is, you know, I mean, it's supposed to speak for itself because like, oh, assassins in every age, or whatever, but at the same time it's just like all right if, if you're, if you're creating something, you're making something up, just make sure you're clear about that. Instead of saying, like most people agree that this was um probably historically accurate, it's like don't say that.
Speaker 2:Don't, don't say that yeah, especially when you're telling the these people like right what their history is because don't people do that to us all?
Speaker 1:it's, it's so crazy. It's like excuse me, uh, but yeah, I once I I saw that. Now you're telling me that he listens to hip-hop yeah, it's like dog.
Speaker 2:What? What are we doing? What are we doing?
Speaker 1:see you're doing too much. You're doing way too much, and I think that's one of the issues that Ubisoft is dealing with in general, because I know they're struggling right now with meeting their numbers and whatnot. I think there was.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, well, they came out with, you know, star Wars Outlaw recently, where you're an outlaw but you kill the police, you don't. It's like I don't know what I was expecting, but if you're an outlaw I'm thinking gta yeah, like you can rob people, you, but it's like you're this good guy or girl or whatever and you know you're. You can't kill animals, it's. It's so pc. It's very tame. Why are you even outlaw?
Speaker 1:you might as well have been a jedi or something and, if you wanted to, to be like this, right and it just goes to show that, um, even though that ubisoft had the opportunity to use star wars ip, that they decided to go in that direction, because clearly what they're doing is, um, they're just trying to reach a market that I, I don't know if you would say a market that exists or not, but um, they, they're trying to appeal to a certain crowd with this, with the outlaws, and then um, with um, uh, assassin's creed, and they're destroying maybe not destroying is too strong a word they're they're just changing the and they're affecting the integrity of the games, the ips themselves, to fit their own narratives, their own agendas, because clearly they just want their money.
Speaker 1:That's really the bottom line. They want to make their money and they're thinking this is the best way to do it. And you look at their subscription model um, for the outlaws thing, and it's just like ridiculous the numbers they were trying to put out, because they just want people to subscribe to them. But I also think that has to do with the fact that they're struggling right now.
Speaker 2:They're just trying to make up for all the losses they've been taking recently and they weren't struggling at one point, right, they were really a big publisher in the industry and I think they're they're still operating and pretending. Maybe now they're realizing they're not. They were at least pretending as if they still were this giant, uh, behemoth, and they were, you know, worth multiple billions of dollars. I think they're still they're, I think they're still a billion dollar company at this point, but their, their price has fallen dramatically, uh, in recent years, because they continuously put out games that people don't resonate with, and I think they really need a return to form. Um, going back to what made your games good before you were pushing an agenda when you were making Rayman there's no, there's no agenda in Rayman, right, right, it's just, you know basic platforming, things like that, that's all it was people creating fun games.
Speaker 1:That's what they I mean, that's what I would imagine they wanted when they picked up Rayman. They just wanted games that were fun, that people would pick up and buy. I mean, of course, money tends to be the bottom line in most of these situations, but it's like if you're trying to figure out what's going wrong, like yeah, look at what was doing well in the past, like, try to come up with a plan you're like you know what this isn't working. Let's see what worked in the past. Let's try to adapt. That's the key word. Right, there is adapt, because no one seems to be doing that, or innovating, for that matter.
Speaker 1:And right, that also leads to the fact that, again, like, the people who are running these companies clearly are not gamers, because they don't know what, they don't care what we want, they just want their money. And, um, when they realize they're not making their money, it's just like what's going on? Like what do we do? Like let's put out another game that nobody asked for and just hope people will buy it. Let's just throw more money at the problem, just like no, but I mean, again, they can do what they want, it's their money. But if they want to succeed. Like doing the same thing over and over is not going to fix it you know the Ubisoft CEO.
Speaker 2:He comes out saying our goal is not to push any specific agenda whatever. And the thing is that it's nice of you to say this, but you actually have to prove that. Yeah, because when you people who play your games or see even how you run your company right, and you have different incentives that are for certain people and not other people who play your games or see even how you run your company Right, and you have different incentives that are for certain people and not other people Right, and people can see who you are.
Speaker 1:We can see that you're.
Speaker 2:You do have an agenda. You are trying to push a narrative.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So you saying that it doesn't mean anything? You're going to have to start proving that and that's going to take a while to do Right. It didn't. You didn't lose your reputation overnight and you're not going to regain it overnight either. But you can start by just making a good game. Game and people will begin to forget all this other stuff.
Speaker 1:Right. If they see you're like doing the right thing, then they'll be like okay, you might've messed up in the past, but you know what You're doing right now, so I'm going to stick with you guys. You're going to have some loyal fans and you're going to have people who are fans of some of the previous works that they've loved in the past's coming out now Again. You can do what you want, but if they can't even get a grip on what it is their fans want, like you're going to lose them. Like forget about the money. Like they're the ones bringing you the money If they stop buying your games. Like you're screwed, like you need to figure that out.
Speaker 2:I'm looking at an article on PC Gamer. Need to figure that out. I'm looking at an article on PC Gamer. The title reads Ubisoft CEO tries to mollify gamers who won't stop being mad about a black samurai in Assassin's Creed games, assassin's Creed Shadows. Okay, stop making your games for these people.
Speaker 2:The one who wrote this article doesn't want to buy your game. He wants you to give the game to him for free so that he can make money off of it. The people who actually want to you know what this reminds me of, too is uh, do you remember um, back when they were first making the original sonic movie? Oh, yeah, and they came out with that ugly, disgusting looking model of sonic. I remember reading people say oh, it's art, you shouldn't really have to. Uh, you shouldn't have a say in. You know how it looks.
Speaker 2:And sega was like hey, look, we, we hear you we're gonna change it. And they're like oh, why are you kowtowing to these people? That are it, bro? These people are the ones who are gonna buy the ticket, right, these people are the ones who are going to support you. Why are you so angry against the people who who support who likes like that? Those are the people who were mad about it. Right, these are. If you've never seen Sonic before, you probably didn't even know that it looked weird. But if you are a fan of Sonic, sonic games in the past and whatnot, you're like wait, what the heck is this?
Speaker 1:Who made?
Speaker 2:this? Yes, sega responded. They corrected it, and not for nothing. It was a good movie. Yeah, I, I enjoyed it. I'm. I can't wait for the next one. Uh, with shadow oh, hell, yeah, oh, nostalgia, right, it's like, but yeah, I mean, I really what happens when you actually listen to the people who pay you instead of the people who just talk crap online it's crazy how that works too, because it's like, wow, like the fix was just listen to the fans.
Speaker 1:Like I, I get it. I, I I know like not everyone wants to try to um, um, uh, not appeal where's not appeal. But it's like not to give the people what they want, um, because they're quote unquote, whining about it or whatever. But it's like these are the fans. Like, they know what the story is, uh, the original story is, they know what they want to see and they, they, like everyone else, knows you're capable of better than this. Like that, I mean it. It clearly wouldn't have been nearly as popular if it released as it did. Like I'm so glad that they actually did it. Like, yeah it it. I know some of the actors weren't too happy about it because they felt like they were really just like giving the people what they wanted. But look what you got from it. You got something that was really amazing.
Speaker 2:That'd be giving the people what they want and that's considered a bad thing today.
Speaker 1:That's crazy crazy, right, give them what they want. It's like this is for them, right? So give them what they want. It's like this is for them, right? So give them what they want. It's like if I came to give you, like, a dish for your birthday or whatever, and it was something that you don't like, and then I get mad about it because you don't like it. This is like did you ask for that?
Speaker 2:Right, and it's not. It's not just that, that simple. Because you're asking people to give up their money, their money, yeah, you asking people to give up their money, their money yeah, you're right, right, so it's even worse in that regard. Um, I'm supposed to pay you, you're delivering a service to me and the thing is, you hear this said a lot and I I said, I believe this to be true. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Yep, but the problem is you, look at concord, people didn't like it, so they didn't buy it, and now they're upset. It's like, oh, look at these guys, they're making't like it, so they didn't buy it, and now they're upset. It's like, oh, look at these guys, they're making Concord fail.
Speaker 2:It's like, no, no no, no, no, no, y'all have to get it straight, and if you're Ubisoft now, you should be looking at Concord and thinking, hmm, hmm, do we need one of these under? Our belt well you don't even have to look at concord, look at star wars outlaw. They say in their report that, uh, it undersold.
Speaker 1:So yeah, um, I think that's about all I got for that but yeah, I mean, I I really don't know what else to say as far as um, why these triple a companies just keep missing their mark, because the answer is right there. It's like listen to your fans like you want their money. Just if, if you give them what they ask for, if you show them what you're working on, they say this is this, ain't it? Um, I'll, I'll buy it if it has this or whatever. I mean, not too many people will be that straightforward, but they'll, they'll tell you if they think it's trash or not.
Speaker 2:And it's listening to feedback. That's what you have to do. Listen to feedback. That's what sega did. Yeah, they listened to feedback and they said hey, y'all think this is trash, we're gonna fix it. The problem is that these other people will say y'all think this is trash, we're going to fix it. The problem is that these other people will say y'all think this is trash, then don't buy it. And then it's not bought. It's like why did you not buy it?
Speaker 1:We made this for you. Yeah, you talentless freaks. There's clearly a big disconnect in the industry right now, and that's one of the reasons why I feel like we need to give more attention to these indie developers in general, because they they're gamers like us. They get it, they understand. It's like they'll listen to feedback most of them will. I'm sure some people you know they don't want to hear it, but for the ones that do, like, they'll give you what they want. That's how we get games like freaking pow world, pokemon with gang with guns like who would have thought like? Then you get games like um balder's gate 3 uh, that's supposed to be based off of a tabletop game that, oh, nobody would want to play. That it's like it's.
Speaker 2:It's amazing it's been like three years, I think, in early access or something like that. Both is great. I could be wrong on the timeline, but they spent a good portion of time in early access just getting act one down. They just let people play and said, hey, we want to hear your feedback. Act 1 is immaculate. It is so great.
Speaker 1:Amazing.
Speaker 2:Oh, my god, because and would it have been if they didn't do that, if they weren't constantly listening to feedback and continuously updating and improving on it? Maybe not, maybe it would, maybe not, but the fact is they did listen and they won Game of the year. They probably should have won everything at the game awards that year, but they had to give awards to other people too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they really like they put everything into it and they listen to the fans and I love that, and I'm sure that the the majority of uh feedback that they got was from people who, uh, actually played dungeons and dragons. So, like they, they got the people who would fact check them and whatnot. I mean, I don't know the actual process, but I'm sure they did and like they really created a game that people wanted and even when it launched and there were some aspects that people were just like I don't know, like I kind of wish you had this, like I wish you had that, like they're still adding stuff to the game still over a year they let them have the mods and stuff.
Speaker 1:It's just like I love that it's. It's not like their game, so to speak. It's a community game. It's like this is like our gift to you. I, I love it like I'd I'd pay, like I'd pay so much more than I paid to play that game. Like it's just, it's beautiful it's amazing see that game.
Speaker 2:I have no problem buying, like the collector's edition and stuff, because it was. It was fantastic and I want to see them do. I played divinity original sin 2 and I saw how good that game was. I was like oh, I've got to support them for their next game. Yes, yes, now I'm saying that for, hopefully, whatever Baldur's Gate 4 or whatever IP they decide to come out with next.
Speaker 1:Right, because we need more of that in the landscape. No more of this nonsense that these companies just throw money at their problems and just hope it sticks. And if it doesn't stick, they move on to the next thing, where they'll borrow IPs from famous companies or whatnot to make a game, just because they think you'll buy it and uh think that they'll make a profit off of it. It's like gaming is more than that.
Speaker 2:It's more than the ip without even really understanding the ip, because boulders gate borrowed the dungeons and dragons ip, so it's not like that in itself but you have to really understand why fans like it. You know everything, everything there is to know about that ip right, you just don't take it you know, you have people that they they have their story that they want to tell, but nobody would listen. So they have to steal someone else's ip and then change it to tell the story that they want to tell like how do you think that you know more than you know?
Speaker 1:george lucas right it's like they think they could take it and make it better. It's just like are you kidding me? Yeah, that's not your job. And then they want to wonder why, like it's not selling. It's literally like when they take uh freaking uh manga and um, they adapt it to anime, but then they like switch it up. They'll like change parts of the story that were integral to the actual story, thinking that I don't know what they think that they'll make it better or whatever. It's like no one's paying you to make it better, just adapt it to a different medium.
Speaker 2:We want the adaptation we want to.
Speaker 1:We want to see what we read yes, like don't fix it, no one asked you to fix it. Like I, I don't know, it's just, it's clearly a disconnect. And again, like I don't know what will fix it, because you can tell them this well, you already said it, just don't buy their stuff, eventually they'll get it eventually.
Speaker 2:That's the thing. More people need to wake up to that. Uh, a lot of people think for some reason oh, I have to buy this. I buy this every year, so I gotta buy the next slot this year. You don't, you don't? If you want to see change, just don't buy it. There's other things out there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, expand your horizons, find a new genre, buy something else out all right, I was just saying that the other day how like, um, uh, I was telling you how I've been such a big fan of nintendo, but after this whole thing with the lawsuit and whatnot, if they actually won their thing, I don't think I'll ever buy another pokemon game again and I'm like a diehard fan. I freaking love pokemon so I love pokemon.
Speaker 1:So if if they actually won this, I'm not buying any more pokemon. Like you know, a Nintendo can sit and spin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's sad because that would hurt me, but it's like yo at the same time. How else do you get the message across? Right, but yeah. I guess that will probably do it for today.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, this was cool. We'll see you guys in the next one and if you have any questions, you can always hit us up on our social media at game revolt llc, or check us out on game revoltorg, check out our blog at game revoltblog, and I believe that's it. Um, it was fun, happy to talk to you guys and happy gaming thanks everyone, peace.
