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Rebel Yell Gaming Podcast
Welcome to Rebel Yell, the official podcast of Game Revolt, where we give a voice to the gamers and developers who are pushing back against the profit-driven gaming giants. Each episode, we’ll dive into the latest gaming news, spotlight up-and-coming indie titles, and discuss the future of the industry from a player-first perspective. From heated debates on microtransactions to interviews with developers daring to dream differently, we’re here to challenge the status quo and shape the future of gaming together. Ready to join the revolution? Subscribe and be part of the movement!
Rebel Yell Gaming Podcast
Nintendo's Legal Crusade: Protecting Patents or Stifling Innovation?
Can Nintendo's aggressive legal maneuvers stifle the innovation that drives the gaming industry? In this episode, we dissect the tumultuous legal dispute between Nintendo and indie developer Pocket Pair. Our exploration delves into the intellectual property conflicts over creature designs and capturing mechanics, focusing on how Nintendo's fierce protection of its patents can hinder the creative freedoms of smaller developers. We also spotlight games like "Cassette Beasts" that successfully navigate around potential patent issues, reflecting a growing frustration within the gaming community over Nintendo's tactics.
Next, we uncover the broader implications of Nintendo's legal strategy, drawing parallels with historical cases such as their partial victory against Blockbuster and their failed lawsuit against Game Genie. By leveraging their financial prowess and extensive legal resources, Nintendo often intimidates smaller competitors into settlements, even when their chances of winning in court are slim. This episode raises critical questions about the ethics of patenting game mechanics and its chilling effect on creativity and fair competition in the gaming industry.
Finally, we dive into the world of gaming patents with a focus on Warner Brothers' Nemesis system from "Shadow of Mordor." Our discussion sheds light on the tension between innovation and legal threats, especially for smaller developers who may be deterred from using groundbreaking systems. We compare Nintendo's technological innovations, such as the Switch, with their stringent legal measures, highlighting the paradox that exists between fostering creativity and stifling it through aggressive litigation. Tune in as we express our anticipation for the resolution of the Pocket Pair lawsuit and reflect on how past legal battles continue to shape the gaming landscape today.
We can always edit out stuff after the fact. You're good.
Speaker 2:And we are live.
Speaker 1:What's good, what's good, all right, so let's just jump into the topic. I could do the intro and stuff after the fact. I'm going to pull it up right now.
Speaker 1:And we're going over the whole lawsuit about Pokemon suinging pocket, pair over intellectual property and, um, a lot of people would say that this was a long time coming, because if you look at some of the designs that they make for a lot of their uh, I was about to say their pokemon, a lot of their creatures, they clearly take inspiration from their Pokemon. But what many don't know is that Nintendo only has copyright on some of their Mons, not all of them. Trademarks, right, trademarks, yeah. So there's really it's hard to tell exactly what it is they're trying to sue for, or if it would even be successful, because, again, uh, free reign, at least I would think I don't know enough about copyright law or trademarks to say for certain, like clearly they know what they're doing. If they think they have a case, then of course they're gonna pursue, pursue.
Speaker 1:But I know, from my perspective, I just think that Nintendo, which is such a big company, has no business, not to say that they have no business, but there's no reason for them to do something like this For an indie game that most of their players are not around as much, like they're still like kind of in that ebb and flow. They're like still establishing themselves. It's like what are they taking from Nintendo? But that's my take. What are your thoughts so?
Speaker 2:really what the issue is is that Nintendo doesn't want to compete with Pocket Pair in the open market, because Pocket Pair clearly has an audience. Nintendo has always had a history of litigations and trying to snuff out competition. So if you can't beat them through game sales and whatnot or Nintendo's still number one, let's be honest here. But how do you stay at the top? Well, you use every means necessary. So that's why they have their lawyers, high-paid lawyers. Going after a small company like this Is to basically just knock out the competition. While they're young, while you know, know, this is still their first year. That right, that power, is not even fully out yet. As far as I know, it's still uh early access. So snuffing them out now removes competition for later. Because pocket pair, they have plans with uh sony, they're gonna make um an anime, they have trading cards that they're looking to release too, so they're trying to do the whole thing that Nintendo did with the Pokemon company, and Pokemon doesn't want that kind of competition, so snuffing them out now is the best way forward.
Speaker 2:And the issue is Pocket Pair was really smart about going after well in their designs, even though you can say, hey, they borrowed inspiration legally. Everything they did was on the up and up. What nintendo's suing them for is patent infringement. Oh so, uh, the patent. One of the patents that Nintendo has is on the capturing process, so you should see the drawings in these patents. They're actually really silly. It's about aiming an object, releasing it and then determining the success of capture. Somehow nintendo was able to patent that idea. That's fascinating.
Speaker 1:How many other games would be an infringement of this, I wonder you know that makes me think a lot, because that, right, there is just like how many games would be like pushing on that, like infringement? Because how do you patent that's? Um, I want to say that's kind of impressive but also stupid. But um, I, I just I'm just frustrated over the fact that they're so bent on having this market. This is them, this is their area of expertise. They don't want you to go to anyone else but them. But there are other pokeclones, as we call them, that do similar things.
Speaker 2:What did you call?
Speaker 1:it Pokeclones, pokeclone Okay, yeah, that's some typical term that people call it, apparently but um, like I, I was actually just getting ready to start working on a um video about this. It's actually funny that you brought it up. But um, uh, I was gonna look into other games that kind of use similar mechanics, one being um cassette beats cassette beast, which is um, uh. It acts as pokemon in a sense where, like, you capture monsters and whatnot, but instead of capturing with them with spheres, you use um uh cassette tapes and you record the pokemon and you could basically just use them. After the fact, I I don't have that much information on it. I'm actually going to start playing it fairly soon.
Speaker 1:But, between that and another one that's called Temtem, which I bought a while back, and it's like the same concept and it's just like. It's fascinating to me because games like this, they became, at least from what I understood, understood like cult classics because of um, their innovation and um, they went in a certain direction that um, uh, even though it's the same train of thought that pokemon uses, like they completely flipped it on its head and did it their own way, and I think that's amazing. They have that, that level of innovation. But I've I.
Speaker 1:I guess in this case, uh pocket pair flew a little too close to the sun and, um, like you said, because apparently they're infringing upon uh whatever patent, that they came up with the capture mechanic now they're in hot water but, sorry to cut you off, but what I
Speaker 2:would say is is that it's not necessarily that they're infringing the. The way, uh, it's called lawfare. The way lawfare works is you file these patents and the patent office will, will give it to you. Um, they, they do basic research, they don't know everything about the games industry or whatever industry you're in, and they'll just see okay, is this patent infringing on someone else's patent? And they give it to you. But if somebody infringes on your patent, then you have to take them to court and the courts will decide if this patent is even lawful or not.
Speaker 2:So, with the process that Nintendo um would like to, obviously like to do to power world is, take them to court. This is court takes years, it takes a lot of money and most, a lot of people don't want to go through this whole process. You, they just want to make video games right, they don't want to go to court, they don't want to do all this. So what nintendo banks on is the fact that they have more money, they have lawyers on staff and that they can wait this out and bleed pal uh, pal, world pocket pair uh dry in the process. So you have examples, uh, in the past, of other companies that nintendo has sued and instead of going through the process they settle outside of the courtroom. So people say that nintendo wins almost all of the lawsuits that they start.
Speaker 1:But a lot of their winning doesn't come from the judge saying hey, we agree with your patent.
Speaker 2:It's the other company saying look, we don't want to fight this, we, we give up, and they end up paying um licenses to nintendo I. So I've heard there's been some talk that Nintendo doesn't lose any lawsuits, that they start, which is not exactly true. There are a few cases here, like Nintendo sued Blockbuster for photocopying and distributing instruction manuals in rented games. They won a partial victory there, but really what they wanted was for Blockbuster to stop renting out Nintendo games. So Blockbuster still was able to do that. They just couldn't do it while photocopying the instruction manuals and what not in their games.
Speaker 1:I don't even. How does that even work? So they just I need to look stuff up it's. It's crazy to me that they went to such lengths when businesses such as Blockbuster was actually doing them a favor. I would think You're basically marketing their game for them. But because they're so concerned about them stealing the idea, I assume I don't know where their heads were at in that period.
Speaker 2:Well, if you're paying Blockbuster X amount of dollars to rent the game, you're paying blockbuster, you know x amount of dollars to rent the game. You're not paying nintendo the full price and they want all of the money. So they don't. They want their thing is cutting out everyone in between. There's another example um, back in the 90s, um, you remember game genie. It was a device you would use to basically hack your game and perform cheats and stuff.
Speaker 2:Nintendo sued Game Genie because of modifying gameplay on Nintendo consoles. Nintendo lost that lawsuit, as you know, because Game Genies were still allowed to be sold. The courts ruled that Game Genie wasn't creating a new game off of it, it was simply modifying the experience, which is not copyright infringement. Game genies were still allowed to be sold. Um, the courts ruled that game genie wasn't creating a new game off of it, it was simply modifying the experience, which is not copyright infringement. So I'm just saying bringing up these examples to show that nintendo does lose lawsuits, even though they do have these high-powered lawyers, when things actually make it to court, is not always 100 favorable for them. I got you. Like I said, their goal is to not let it get to court, drag this out as long as possible and make Pocket Pair or Game Genie Blockbuster. Lose lots of money in the process, paying lawyers the entire way through it's lawfare, instead of just competing on the open market.
Speaker 1:That is fascinating. I did not know the open market. That is fascinating. I did not know any of that. That is really fascinating. So it's really just. They're literally just playing a game or I guess you could say a game of chicken whoever decides to give up first. From what I've seen, though, I do see that Pocket Pair has every intention to fight back on this issue. So I'm kind of I mean, I'm kind of I'm really hoping that they end up like winning this lawsuit or Nintendo gives up, but that's really fascinating.
Speaker 2:I don't know about Nintendo giving up I hope you're right too but because this is bad for the industry in general. Patenting game mechanics is really stupid. The only reason you want to do that is because you want to stifle innovation. You don't want. I mean you look, like you said, there's, you know, tentem Koromon, nexomon Monster Crown, all these other monster-taming games that are out there.
Speaker 2:And why are we going after Power World, nexomon, monster Crown, all these other monster-taming games that are out there. And why are we going after Palworld? Well, palworld was breaking records on Steam, so that's why you're going after this guy. While, again, while they're still young, while they're in their first year, where they haven't even released the game fully yet, right, right. So you don't want them to become this behemoth that you have to fight, because then you can't. You don't have that advantage over them that you can drag this out, but pocket pair made so much money off of this. I don't know if this strategy is going to work, so I am really interested in seeing how this plays out. One of the other problems is that this is in. They they're being sued in Tokyo, so under the Japanese law, and that Japanese law is very I mean, american law is terrible when it comes to copyright, but from what I understand, japanese law is even worse in some regards. So it's kind of a toss-up at this point, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's really telling that they're that afraid of competition, that they're willing to stifle innovation like that.
Speaker 1:Because I mean, you look at the things that have been created so far like again with Temtem, cassette Beast and whatnot and it really it's amazing to see stuff like this and like games like those.
Speaker 1:Any one of them could technically rival Pokemon, especially considering the fact that they've gotten very lazy, considering the fact that they've gotten very lazy and um, I know you've noticed this too where it's like, with every new installment they come out with, yeah, they they've come up with like some ambitions, ambitious projects with um pokemon, um scarlet and violet being an open world and everything, and um, and while I think like that's really cool and all but you could, you can see as you play the game like it wasn't finished, there were bugs in it, but as far as they're concerned, like their whole thing was just making sure they release it by their specific dates because they need to make their money or whatever. But, um, it kind of makes me wonder, like, do you think, like are they struggling on some front that they feel the need to like do things like this, or it's just like they just don't want to have to pay the extra money to produce a game that's actually like what we ask for as gamers. Like what are they trying to do?
Speaker 2:well, why would you put in more effort when minimum effort is giving you what you want? Is that? That's how I see it. So, um, you don't have to. And the other thing is too you, pokemon, is the biggest franchise ever big. You look at disney and mickey mouse, all this stuff that came out way before pokemon did. Pokemon eclipses them by huge numbers. And I think they're trying to be a little conservative. They don't want to rock the boat too much. They don't want to mess this up. This, I mean, pokemon's a cash cow for them. You don't want to take things too far and then you lose your audience, right? So I think that's why they're so hesitant to make these, uh, big innovations.
Speaker 2:I just finished playing um, arceus, arceus I don't know how you pronounce it legends arceus. Yeah, I thought that game was pretty cool, but there are a lot of people that were upset because they changed the battle mechanics in the game. Now it was more. You know, it was, I guess, the open world type before, uh, scarlet and violet, but you could see where they, how scarlet and violet, became what it was because they, they took this chance. But then you have. So we say we want them to take a chance, but then when they do take a chance, people get upset about it too. It's like, well, what happened to the thing I I used to like?
Speaker 2:so it's kind of a I do feel bad in a way, um, because it's kind of a tight rope that they have to walk and how far they can innovate, versus, um, upsetting their old fans right so, uh, one of the other things that power is getting sued for is not only the monster throwing, the capturing mechanics, but they're they also put in monster writing, um, so being able to get monsters in game and being able to ride them. The funny thing with uh, I I know for certain the first patent, the monster capturing one, is that they filed that after power world was already released. So I'm not that that's kind of weird to me, but again, I don't know anything about japanese law so and how that's going to work out. But you know the game's already out and you're trying to sue them for something that for them infringing on your patent, which didn't even exist when the game came out. Maybe that will be upheld in Japan, I don't know.
Speaker 2:But again, how many other games allow you to ride on monsters? So why is Power World being singled out here? Is everybody that has a, a monster riding mechanic, gonna have to pay a license to nintendo? Now?
Speaker 1:I don't know thinking like uh, any game that has you like riding on horses too, or if anything that looks like a horse but is not actually a horse, technically considered a monster, it'd be like oh, we can go after them next.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, I mean, who knows how, how broad that is. So again, it would be a win for the entire industry if power world wins. This beats them out on every front because you want to see these mechanics and, uh, shadows of mordor, I believe it's called, had this nemesis system, which I haven't played the game but everyone says was really really good, because the concept sounds interesting, where you would fight enemies and if you lost to them, they would remember you. It was kind of like it would build up different storylines depending on how you played the game, and warner brothers patented that. So now nobody else can use that system. But the system sounds really interesting and warner brothers has any. They don't even use the patent, so it's just sitting there.
Speaker 2:Uh, I wish somebody would try it and then say but here's the problem, right Is that if you try taking that system, putting it into your own game, then you have to deal with well, is Warner Brothers now going to sue you and how long is this process going to take? Because even if the courts would say, hey, this patent's BS, these things take years and BS, these things take years. I'm sure you remember Epic suing Apple because of Apple wouldn't let them, wouldn't let Fortnite on the Apple store. Yeah, right, the whole money issue or whatever. Right, that process is still going on and I think this lawsuit happened like 2020. Right, it's still going on. They're still fighting this out in court. That's crazy.
Speaker 2:You have appeals and everything like that, so, uh, I didn't know a small developer isn't gonna want to take this on I mean, I imagine it's very intimidating for them.
Speaker 1:But I mean, like the thing is like with a company like Nintendo, as big as they are. If the issue for them was that they didn't want to get too ambitious with some of their projects and they don't want someone else who has the freedom to be more ambitious and create something that could one day rival them, they could just as easily try to pick up one of these companies. Maybe I don't, I don't know, um, I I'm not too familiar with the territory as far as that goes, but I feel like if I was in their position and I saw a company like power blowing up, I'd be like you know what? What you're creating is actually really good. How about you come work for us and, um, we'll give you some extra resources if you allow us to, I don't know give you some direction and like, let them do their thing. They could profit off of that, unless their whole goal is just to keep building up the Pokemon name. That actually makes more sense. I might have just answered my own question.
Speaker 2:You do want to build up the Pokemon name. Also, Nintendo has a brand identity you think of.
Speaker 1:Mario Zelda Pokemon.
Speaker 2:Palworld is right, you think of, uh, mario zelda. Pokemon power world is, uh, you know, taking a gun and shooting a penguin in the head. It's a little off brand for nintendo, yeah, so, um, I think that's really. Maybe that's where they they take more offense to because, it's not nintendo's way more pc than uh, than power. World is right, like you know. Right. They can't afford, they can't afford not to be yeah, it's weird because you know you capture pokemon but they're considered your friends where in Power World.
Speaker 1:It's like this is my slave, slave them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean you could be friends with them. But you know people, you also have that ability to butcher them too, right Right, Nintendo wants to maintain their image. That's really important to them.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And they don't mind being known as the people who will litigate you to death. They don't care, and part of the reason they don't care is because it works you look at, you know, nintendo's still one of the biggest. Uh, I mean, is it's basically them and Sony now, right, like, I'm pretty sure, xbox is out of the yeah Xbox like left. Yeah, they waved their white flags, and Nintendo's been going strong longer than Sony has in the video game market. They sure have. So why would they stop doing what's working?
Speaker 1:No, you're right. You're right, they keep doing what they're doing as long as nothing threatens them. I mean, if they want to keep that single-minded mindset, I mean it is what it is, that's their prerogative. But, like, like you said, like it's just not doing these, this industry, any favors and it's not encouraging more people who might have similar ideas to try to come up themselves. Because it's like if I'm just going to get punished for doing it anyway, like why would I bother? Which is really a shame, because we need more innovation in the industry. Like we really need to see more of that, and it's it really is a shame. I I really expected better of Nintendo, but maybe that's just me being naive, because I always remembered Nintendo being very innovative with their consoles and everything In comparison with Sony and Microsoft when it came to the console wars.
Speaker 1:They were trying to compete, but not really. They were just trying to do something new that the others weren't trying to do.
Speaker 2:I was like that's awesome, I love that?
Speaker 1:Where did that go?
Speaker 2:I mean, the Switch is innovative in itself, that's true. So on the console side they're still doing it. It's mainly the legal aspect that kills me with Nintendo in trying to just snuff out smaller players in the game.
Speaker 2:But how do you stay on top right? You make sure nothing else can rise up to take you down. No, you're right. So it sucks to hear and here's the reality too, that is going to be hard for a lot of gamers to hear is that most people who play, who have a switch, who play mario they don't even know about the lawsuit, they don't care. This isn't they. They just want to play the new mario party when it comes out. They're not interested in all that goes on in the background, and Nintendo knows this. So, within our small sphere of people that are online, you know if you're online you think that this is a big deal and everybody's talking about it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But most people who own a console of any kind have no idea this is going on. I'm sure there's people who own an Xbox right now thinking, oh, they can't wait for the next Xbox to come out. They don't even realize that Microsoft bowed out of the race, right, so the average person isn't up on this stuff. Uh, the way we are right. No, that actually makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:I mean you could say the same thing, um, about I'm not gonna get into politics, but you could say the same thing about politics, like most people are not going to try to get into it, they just they'll just be around. For when you get down to the two candidates and then they go from there just like all, right, now, tune in. Okay, what are we dealing with? Okay, will I pick this one? Will I pick this one? Um, now I don't feel like voting and then like they move on to the next thing. Um, but I I it's.
Speaker 1:It's difficult, especially considering that I know we were going over the numbers with the gaming industry. They make billions of dollars every year and it's amazing how they're able to pull those numbers and there are still so many people who are completely unaware of what goes on in the industry. Really, there, there needs to be more change. But I do see that there are indie developers and companies and other corporations that are actually trying to combat this kind of behavior in order to pave the way to a brighter future for gaming. But it's hard to conceptualize what will be the answer that stops this whole corporate control, like the fact that nintendo says oh no, we're not doing this. We have to do it like this or we're gonna sue you. Or with sony coming and stopping their cross play on some of their um, some of the games that they have, like what they did with um hell divers, how they said at first if I remember correctly, it was you didn't have to have a Sony account in order to play, or something like that.
Speaker 1:I have to look it back up. But when they realized that Helldivers was blowing up, they were just like, oh, we have to control that. And then people weren't having it. They raised a big stink on it and eventually Sony kind of loosened its grip. But it's but I say all that to say it's frustrating that you have to get to the point where you have to have people actually like start a riot in order to get companies to like pay attention. It's like listen, stop, or we're not playing the game. That's it.
Speaker 2:Oh, you don't have to start a riot here. It's very simple to get a company to pay attention. Stop buying the product if you stop buying the product, that's when they pay attention to you.
Speaker 2:I just looked up the uh statistics on you brought up voting. Last election was some of the highest turnout I think ever seen in US history and 80 million people who were eligible to vote didn't even vote Damn. And this is one of the highest turnouts ever. Right, and a third of the people that could vote just said I don't give an F about this. I don't give an F about this, you know. So you think everybody is just as worried about the same issues that you are Right.
Speaker 2:But some people just have other things going on. They don't care enough. They care a little bit. They'll buy a console and they'll play the game. They don't care about you know, what's happening behind the scenes in the company, what their lawyers are doing, or whatever. There are a lot of people that are like this.
Speaker 1:Right. Actually, that makes me think of when they released that story about they have evidence of aliens and nobody cared. It's like listen, I'm just trying to pay my bills, right?
Speaker 2:How does this affect me? Right, pay my bills, right, like, how does this affect me? Right, so, and that, that and. But for somebody like me who loves playing video games, this does affect me and it this affects, um, all of us in the fact that you won't see certain mechanics in games. If nintendo can win these lawsuits, hopefully, hopefully they don't and hopefully Power World has enough. There are a lot of people talking about donating to them if they should start a Kickstarter or GoFundMe or something like that. Which shoot, they came out with like a chill-it toy and it sold out Really, yeah, quick. Out with like a a chill it toy and it's sold out really, yeah, quick. So all you got to do is that just come out with some more merchandise. Do what Pokemon's doing, beat them at their own game. Come out with better merchandise. Come out with, you know, the trading card games, the anime and all that stuff. I really appreciate you looked at the Tokyo Gameo game show. They had that huge um setup. Look beautiful just continue as normal.
Speaker 2:Keep, just keep doing what you're doing right, because it's working right. You know it's working because the big players are coming after you. Now, right, you ever play halo. You get lost in the map. How do you know you're going the right way? When you see enemies coming at you, you know, okay, this is the way I should be going. If you're getting that resistance, you're doing the right thing.
Speaker 1:Right, right, no, I mean, I'm all for it If it means that they'll actually it'll make a difference for them fighting against them and just like get a win for for gaming in general, like I would.
Speaker 1:I, I really hope, I really really hope that they win this whole litigation nonsense, uh, law games, it's just it's. It makes me wonder if, if it would make a difference if we were to try to say get more people. No, I feel like it would be a waste of time Because you were mentioning how, for people that feel like this doesn't affect me, they're not going to care about it, but would it be a waste of energy to try to get them to care about it, or would it be more? Um, I guess you say conducive to like just focus on the people who are in the industry and just try to build them up and focus on what we can focus on, as far as I'm, getting those people informed so that they can say what they need to say, they could talk to who they need to talk to, in order to like basically push these movements to help these developers, like um pocket pair, to like really just get them to um, uh, I guess just to rally behind them.
Speaker 2:I guess so everybody's going to be different, but my opinion is you can't convince somebody to join your side that if you're not with us, you're against this kind of deal.
Speaker 2:Ah yes, All you can do is inform them and say, hey, this is what's going on, this is what we believe the repercussions are, and let them make their own decision. From there they could say, hey, nintendo's fully in their right to sue them for this, because this is crap. If you come up with a product, we don't want to see all these clones that could be their opinion. Okay, that's your opinion. I'm not going to.
Speaker 2:I don't want to try to convince you, especially because there's so many people out there that share the same opinion I have. I don't need to convince you, and I think you'll just end up fighting with each other, more so than anything, and usually that's not productive. How many times have you tried convincing somebody of your side of an argument? And it's actually worked most of the time, in my experience, you just end up arguing, yeah, and nobody leaves better for it. One side already came up, already has their opinion, they knew what it was before the argument started. You had your opinion and you weren't going to get swayed either, and you just butt heads.
Speaker 1:It doesn't produce anything positive or anything you just came to yell at each other.
Speaker 2:Right, and people don't like being told what to do, right, right. So I think getting the word out there and letting people understand that, hey, this is what's going on, and let them form their opinions whether this is right, this is wrong, let them take their sides, right. I think that's for the best.
Speaker 1:I agree with that. I agree with that. I agree with that. Just let them do their own thing. Bring them the information. If they don't want to hear it, that's fine, just keep it pushing. You just keep doing your own thing. You fight your fight. Not try to necessarily drag everybody into it. Just tell them hey, listen, this is what's going on. If you're interested, you want to get involved, this is what you do. These are the people you can sign up with. If you want to donate, if you want to buy from the store, whatever the case is, you offer the information to them and if they want to take it, they'll take it. If not, if not, just keep it moving.
Speaker 2:I completely agree with that, because yeah and make it if you want, instead of convincing people just taking the people that already agree with you and making it easier for them to have an impact in this right, because there's one thing for us to know, um, that this is happening. But then putting out the links for if power world did this right, like a go fund me. Or saying, hey, if you want to support um their effort, you should go buy their toys. Or here's where you can buy their toys not that you should here's where you can do it, providing them the opportunity right to put their money where their mouth is, if they really are about this and sometimes people don't have money either. Or you can say, hey, just share this online with your friends and see what other people think. But, yeah, definitely don't take the you're either with us or against us approach.
Speaker 1:No more of that. That's toxic in and of itself. We don't need any more of that. Yeah, I completely agree with that. Just keep doing what you're doing. I mean Pocket Pair. I hope again I really do hope that they win this and we can keep moving forward. I'm over this nonsense. I don't know about you, but I am done with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one day we got to talk about some of these other lawsuits, because there are some some pretty big, like high profile lawsuits and we I think it's more interesting than anything else on how the law affects gaming today. I'm talking about, like cases from the 80s, the 90s, you know, 20, 30, 40 years ago even and they affect the way games are made today and we don't we don't even know it. Um, but I think it'd be really interesting, uh, as a as a future topic to dive into.
Speaker 1:I would love to do that, just to dive into the history of, um, some of these um uh issues that came up in the past that many people aren't aware of. Yeah, I'm totally down for that. I might do some research after this, actually. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I can't remember the name of the company, but there was a company that came up with. So Capcom came out with Street Fighter, right, another company came out with their version, which was a straight up clone of it. Yeah, yeah. But uh, the you know, capcom took them to court over it saying, hey look, these guys are just ripping us off. And of course we're like, look, capcom, you, you don't own fighting games as a genre they're allowed to make fighting games too.
Speaker 2:However, to the other company, some of your characters are a little too close to what Capcom made. I don't know. Some of these cases are interesting. We'll dive into that later. I got you. That's crazy these companies.
Speaker 1:I swear, but yeah, all right, that's cool man. Yeah, anything else you want to talk about, you're good for now.
Speaker 2:I think we hit all the major points as far as this lawsuit is concerned. Cool, cool, cool. All right. I will come out with more as more details come out right now. Come out with more as more details come out right now With the patent situation. Even pocket pair doesn't know exactly which patents, but we'll find out as more information comes available.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's been real, all right. Well, I think that's it for this one and looking forward to talking to you guys again, peace out Sounds good Peace.
